Sandra Healy is founder and CEO of inclusio. A proud advocate for diversity and inclusion in the workplace, she founded inclusio to allow companies to track the impact of their social and cultural policies.
In an interview with David Monaghan, Deputy Editor of Business & Finance, Healy discusses her concerns around the potential devaluing of DEI in the wake of a global right-ward shift, becoming an entrepreneur in her fifties, and the importance of embracing an anti-fragility mindset.
Sandra Healy is founder and CEO of inclusio, a platform that combines science, technology and ethical AI to help companies measure, action and report on their people and culture.
It is used to augment DEI reporting for companies who wish to advance social inclusion measures.
Healy is an Engineer, an Organisational Psychologist and NLP Master Practitioner. She worked previously in the global telecommunications industry before spending five years at Dublin City University.
At DCU, she established the DCU Centre of Excellence for Diversity & Inclusion. Inclusio developed out of the University in 2020.
DEI to DIE?
Healy, for her part, is a proud advocate for diversity and inclusion in the workplace and is vocal in her concerns of its potential erosion.
She says the last year has been ‘tough’. Indeed, we have seen a scaling back in support of DEI initiatives across various industries.
Elon Musk, while once an advocate for diversity initiatives, now makes proclamations such as ‘DEI must DIE’.
Recently, Meta changed its policies on hateful conduct, allowing users to brand LGBTQ+ ‘mentally ill’ on platforms such as Facebook and Instagram.
Companies continue to shift right as the United States awaits the commencement of President-elect Donald Trump’s second term.
Says Healy: “One of the challenges we did face was just around where do we fit in the world, right, because the world of DEI and people and culture has changed quite significantly, and a lot of that is driven by polarisation, a lot of it is driven by through the political environment and the geopolitical environment that we’re in at the moment.”
Healy notes that a lot of DEI leaders hired over the last 5 years have lost their jobs. This is happening a lot in larger global tech companies.
“If we think about equity or equality, that’s the reason that our mothers can vote and have pensions, right? So what are you saying, you’re voting against that now? That’s not OK.”
“And it’s not to say that those companies are not focused on DEI, it’s just that they have had to go other ways about it because it’s been weaponised, and I don’t use that word lightly, and I don’t like that word, but effectively, if you look at some of the narrative of what’s happening in other parts of the world, if somebody is a person of color, for example, they’re accused of being ‘a DEI hire.’”
Speaking at the Society of Actuaries at a recent keynote, Healy broke the term ‘DEI’ down.
“[It] seems like a very technical term, but let’s break it down: Diversity, that’s every single one of us. There’s no two people the same here, right? If we think about equity or equality, that’s the reason that our mothers can vote and have pensions, right? So what are you saying, you’re voting against that now? That’s not OK.
“And if you think about inclusion, what’s the opposite to inclusion? It’s exclusion. And what research shows us is that exclusion lights up the part of our brain as if we’ve been kicked physically. OK, so for somebody to say, ‘DEI must DIE’, why are you voting against that?
“But there’s nothing wrong with getting up every day and doing your best and being kind and being respectful of other human beings, and I think more and more of that is required in the world, unfortunately, with what’s going on at the moment.
Inclusio – Ahead of its time?
Inclusio is a gamified platform that captures the hard-to-get culture data. Spun out from Dublin City University, it helps companies measure, action and report on their people. Healy says that, in some ways, it is “a bit ahead of our time.”
“One of the things we set out to address was how do you measure culture, because it is inherently difficult to measure. I describe culture as the space between things, and how do you measure something that is not tangible?
“Essentially, through our 4 years of research and development, and testing it in the market, we’ve standardised a model of measuring culture that includes things like trust, psychological safety, job supports, well-being, and belonging.”
“I describe culture as the space between things.”
And what about people data? “We’re able to then understand how different groups are experiencing the culture. So, for example, ‘is my manager doing what needs to be done to get the best out of me,’ or ‘is there a risk of me leaving the business’, or ‘do I have high levels of psychological safety, am I able to speak up and have my ideas heard at the table and to innovate?’”
Healy says it’s these concepts that allow workforces to become more diverse, as it gives space for different people from different backgrounds to enter an organisation.
“It really is critical that we have a culture that supports and gets the best out of those people,” Healy continues.
“In a couple of years’ time, every company is going to need this data and they have figured out that they can’t get it. This is the first year I would say that we have companies coming to us looking for what we’re doing.”
Resilience
One of the things Healy learned about herself early on is that when she feels like she has mastered something, she wants to move on to something else.
“In my early career, it meant moving companies, but I figured out over the years that it was better to move roles.
“I would describe myself as an ‘in-trepreneur’ before I became an entrepreneur, and I think every company and organisation I’ve ever been in, I’ve set something up or found a problem that needed to be solved, and I figured out a way to do that.”
While working at Dublin City University, she established the DCU Centre of Excellence for Diversity and Inclusion.
“What I realised is that in the university there’s all of this brilliant research, but it’s sitting on the shelf, and how could we get that out into the world of work and get it into practice, and that’s really what the Centre of Excellence was about.
Anti-fragility
I ask Healy if she would say she is resilient. She pauses. “It’s no longer just a requirement to have resilient teams and resilient people, it’s around anti-fragility,” she says.
What is anti-fragility? “The recognition that there’s constant change, and there’s always going to be constant change, and how can we be ready as individuals and as teams to be able to adapt and learn and grow really quickly and be able to consistently move forward while all of this change and uncertainty is going on.”
Uncertainty
Healy says anti-fragility is needed in a world growing more hostile.
“There’s just more and more uncertainty in the world now. And as an employer, it can be quite challenging.
“We hear very senior DEI practitioners and HR practitioners are talking about this challenge around leaving the politics outside the door when you come into work. We used to be able to do that, and it was acceptable that you do that.
“But now there’s much more polarisation around how different people are experiencing, for some, very traumatic things that are happening for their communities outside.
“It’s how do you bring that into work and have it not impact your work or the culture within your team.
“All the research shows that you need to create the right cultural conditions and the right leadership conditions, and you have to be able to create psychological safety within the group, within the team, within the organisation to be able to extract that innovation and to keep people productive and connected into the mission of the organisation.”
Entrepreneurship
Healy says that if entrepreneurship is in you, if it’s “in your blood”, you have to do it. She became an entrepreneur in her fifties. “I think it’s much more complex to do it at that stage,” she says.
There are pros and cons: “I have more experience that I’m able to bring to it, but it’s not for the faint-hearted. I think it’s extremely difficult. There’s a lot of things that happen that you can’t control, externally. Things out there in the world that you can’t control.
“Being an entrepreneur allows me to use everything I know, so I’ve studied graphic design, I’ve studied engineering, leadership, I’ve studied psychology, data science, all of those things.”
Describing entrepreneurship as ‘exciting’, Healy’s journey began in 2016 with 10 slides she brought into a university and, backed by Enterprise Ireland, she was able to expand that and bring a piece of software to the market that has made significant impact.
“I would describe myself as an ‘in-trepreneur’ before I became an entrepreneur, and I think every company and organisation I’ve ever been in, I’ve set something up or found a problem that needed to be solved, and I figured out a way to do that.”
“I get to use every skill I’ve ever learned as I lead the business and I scale it. I think the entrepreneur journey is quite an individual one in a way, because every business has its own path and has its own formula for success, and you’re figuring that out as you’re going, and you learn from your failures more than your successes.”
As an entrepreneur, Healy spends a lot of time giving back by sharing her experiences with others: “If I have been through it the hard way and I can make it a little bit easier for you, I’m going to do that. So I take the time and I make sure that that’s built into who I am and how I do it.
“It’s very rewarding, number one, but secondly, one of the things I always say to people when I’m asked to give advice, I’ve always said ‘don’t step over it’. If you find something that needs to be done and needs to be addressed, don’t leave it for somebody else.”
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